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Being in the moment - continues

Sorry, I just had to make it since @Troy raised something that contradicts what I have been taught in tonight's Getting Real.


" ... Theres a phrase that " You are not your thoughts" , meaning we experience thoughts but we dont have to identify and become overally attached with them, as many thoughts are 'automatic thoughts' which may not all be helpful. ..."


That phrase is interesting as I was taught WUTIWUF AKA what you think is what you feel. I learnt this doing CBT. What are peoples thoughts on this?


And now that I have realised that is is not 'what you are' but rather 'what you feel', what troy was saying kind of makes sense. But at the same time, I still have to question it. Of course you are not attached to your thoughts, but they can determine how you feel, so if you aren't combatting those negative thoughts, then you are probably feeling pretty low.

My entire life can be described in one sentence: It didn't go as planned and that's okay. ツ

Re: Being in the moment - continues

@stonepixie I think the phrase "You are not your thoughts" is to not put too much stock into some of what you think. For example, the automatic thoughts. These 'automatic thoughts' are, well, automatic, and you shouldn't become too attached to them.
And then 'What you think is what you feel' is more when you are thinking more deeply. They're not automatic or your first thoughts, they're more (excuse the wording) thought out.

Something I read awhile ago might put this into more sense.

"The first thoughts you think are the ones that society has trained you to think, the second are your own."

So, automatic thoughts aren't necessarily your own personal feelings or ideas. You are not those first thoughts, and you feel what the others are.
Does that make sense? I missed the GR session but that's what I think, going on from what you've posted here.

Re: Being in the moment - continues

@redhead we're talking a little bit more about last night's GR here if you wanna chat Smiley Happy

I'll be checking in tonight Smiley Happy


Oooo that's really interesting. I think something a little different. I hope this relevant it's just what I know about thoughts

if I point at this phone, for example, that is “real”. But if like have a thought “this phone is lame” it’s like not “real”. it’s a thought. And thoughts can be accurate or not, helpful or not.
But they aren’t “real”.

So the “this phone is lame” might be accurate, in that it could be stuffed or it could be unhelpful if it stops me from using a it properly.
I might say its lame cause it white, and someone might actually think “the phone is awesome” cause it’s White. So what I am trying to say is that thoughts are thoughts and they do not always reflect what’s actually going on. Even if they do, they are not “real”.
So, the thoughts like “I have no value” (something I think a lot) does not necessary reflect reality. It’s just that sometimes it can feel very real. So, it's important to look at why you have these thoughts and look at evidence for there any?

PS. I'm using mobile view for this on my phone and it must of updated or something cause it's so much easier!

//You can stay afraid, or slit the throat of fear and be brave//

Re: Being in the moment - continues

"These 'automatic thoughts' are, well, automatic, and you shouldn't become too attached to them."


There in lies the problem for many people whom struggle with their thoughts. But at the same time, if you think something over and over again that is, it becomes so ingrained in you, then of course it is going to become your automatic thought. I guess that is where the 'society trained' idea comes from. But at the same time, I believe that is how CBT is effective.


Not everyone is a deep thinker like most of us here on the forums, so these 'automatic thoughts' that some people are having could well be the only thoughts they are having and hence, they sort of are defined by their thoughts. Of course there is a whole other side of thoughts that come from emotional abuse.


I believe telling people that they are not their thoughts is a great place to start when helping people overcome their negative outlook on life.


Does that make sense?


Ooo! I love your response @j95! It is a great way to think about things. Smiley Happy


Oh and @N1ghtW1ng this is just going off a response from a question @Ben-RO asked right at the end. 


My entire life can be described in one sentence: It didn't go as planned and that's okay. ツ

Re: ...

Just to expand on your point @j95, thoughts are totally subjective. Even when you think you're being rational and logical and objective, your thoughts are biased by a range of internal and external influences. I guess it's why a hypothesis doesn't count as fact in the scientific world!

Re: ...

#BeingInTheMoment : Being fully in the moment (of avoiding wading through beach stuff to pack) by responding to posts on RO.


Re: Being in the moment - continues

@stonepixie @j95 @N1ghtW1ng  Absolutely awesome responses. You guys have so much good knowledge to share I feel like I can learn off what each of you have just discussed.


to go more directly to your question @stonepixie I think they are consistent, but on different levels.


CBT is very straight forward and simple.


'The cognitive model states that the interpretation of a sitaution (rather then the situation itself), often expressed in automatic thoughts, influences one's subsequent emotion, behaviour, and physiologicla response' Judith S. Beck (Daughter of the founder of Cognitive therapy)


So roughly- This is suggesting that our interpretation of things effects our emotions (this seems associated to what you said about 'you think what you feel'.


However, from a more 'mindfulness' perspective of 'you are not you thoughts', is moving away from interpretation and automatic thinking. For example, when I meditated last night it started raining and my automatic imagery was the rain on the tin roof, and I instantly got this positive feeling because I like the sound of rain on the roof. However, I gently moved away from this 'thinking' and 'interpreting' mind and tried to merely listen to the rain as a raw sound without even thinking of it as rain, just merely a sound in part of my experience.


So my interpretation of  "you are not your thoughts" is that  on one level we have a RAW experiences that are largely neutral. But often, we attach stories and given meaning to these experiences and it is this meaning that can produce for example pleasure and suffering. 


Im definately not suggesting to never interpret events in life. It seems that all functions have their purpose, but I guess flourishing is based on finding that 'balanced  zone' between a good amount of automatic thinking and interpreting an excessive amount that is based on distortions.


P.S. When I say our experience is largely neutral ill explain what I mean a bit more. Of course on a lower more primitive level we have strong drives  e.g. Food etc. But on a higher level, much things are neutral such as a rock. But we may attach meaning to these things. Not going to go too deep into this, but didn't want people to get lost in the 'exeptions.



Looking forward to hearing your responses as you guys have awesome ideas!


Im off to go be present at the gym while I smash out a workout Smiley Happy



Re: Being in the moment - continues

I just want to say you guys are amazing. Your discussion and the way you come together like this is awesome. Reading through this thread has been the highlight of my week.

Re: Being in the moment - continues

I just had this thought: 'Are we just thinking way too far into this?' And then giggled.


Dammit @Troy! Now I am daydreaming of rain on the roof. So guess what I am listening to now? Rainy Mood!


So I guess it kind of depends on what therapy model you think of, but also how you perceive the situation (subjective) and what actually happened during the situation (Raw). I guess you could say that it is kind of like the saying 'There are always 3 sides to the story' only it is just you and your thoughts. So 2 sides to the story? And that people may have trouble distinguishing between the 2, so therefore believe their thoughts are what actually happened.



My entire life can be described in one sentence: It didn't go as planned and that's okay. ツ