Values vs Trauma

Hi @Defender_Of_Roses ,

Nah I get what ur saying definitely. I think ur right, it's definitely not a black and white thing where if what you value comes from a traumatic event/series of events then it's definitely a bad thing. A lot of the time the crappy experiences you have can result in you formulating a set of values/a belief system. Maybe another way to put it would be to think of whether this value is helping you or not? Like is it providing you a net positive?

Like if ur a kind person because you grew up feeling guilty about not being kind, so as a result you become a doormat and please everyone at your own expense, then that's ur value of kindness resulting in a net negative. But I guess that doesn't necessarily mean you don't value kindness, it just means the way you're exhibiting that value is costing you too much (and in some cases, others).

I've had a think about it tho and I feel like the main area I'm struggling with is that 'life is unfair' schema I mentioned, like I get super frustrated when myself and others are treated unjustly and it makes me wonder, is this helpful? Like is this me being a just person or someone who feels like everyone is being hard done by? Is it both? Is it ok to feel like everyone's being hard done by? Do you need to balance it and if so how?

Maybe the real question is just 'is it helpful to think this way?' Like is it causing me more mental strain than positive benefit? Is the cost of the mental strain and frustration worth it? How do you know when it's worth it? Argh so many questions lmao dw I'm not asking directly you these are more just what I'm wondering haha. Thankyou for ur thoughtful reply tho have a great night 🙏

@Mint_Crane That makes more sense now 🙂

Honestly it's potentially a bit of both. I hate when people are victims of injustice, and I would do anything to make it right for them. I'm a bit more pessimistic rather than optimistic, so I tend to think the world is more of an awful place, and most people are victims no matter what we do. You can be a just person, and everyone - including yourself - could still be hard done by, and it's not necessarily a value that you're lacking. It's just how the world is, in a way. 💕

I personally find it's easier to just accept that this is the world we live in, but we can still feel the injustices for ourselves and everyone else in it, maybe know how to fix it, but ultimately it's just how it is. There certainly are some that are worth fighting, but it's more can you take on that burden just yet? Or is there a change you can help make because you have the capacity to go through the strain at the time? 

I get all the questions, I wonder about these too! It's very philosophical, and I'm here for it 😄

Yeah same I love these discussions too @Defender_Of_Roses so really appreciate it.  

And yeah I get being pessimistic about the world tbh. There really are tons of injustices, some more overtly obvious like wars and such overseas, but some more covert like societies perception on body image or the current climate of social media. Like for example I was walking back from a boxing class with a mate and noticed on a bus an add for the 'lady shake', which I'm assuming is an equivalent for the man shake which is meant to be a way to lose weight I guess. It really honed in for me how we're still stuck in the mindset of u gotta lose weight to feel good, since you might, but probs won't, meet an 'appearance ideal' which is usually defined as being slimmer. It's things like that that can make me super pessimistic coz it's like why are we still ascribing to these toxic narratives that are clearly making us all depressed?

That being said I do feel some optimism, because when you look at history there are often 'revolutions' that occur once things just get too shitty, and I do genuinely believe that will happen at some point for this generation. Like people are gonna get super fed up with how shitty we all feel from our phones and societal pressures and everything, and will just say 'fuck it I can't do this anymore' and things will change. Idk that's just a hope I have, like for example there's been talk about the resurgence of physical media bc people are getting sick of how we don't really own anything anymore since it's all just subscriptions services really.

Sorry I got kinda side tracked there but going back to values vs trauma, I feel like part of it really is just testing stuff out IMO, and seeing if it works for you. Most of our values come from experiences, and those experiences can be both negative and positive. I feel like the overall thing tho is using guilt/shame to drive your actions/beliefs is generally not the best idea, so going back to the strainer analogy you could think about the strainer as the thought 'if I never felt guilt/shame, what would I want to do, what would I consider valuable?' I do genuinely believe for me, my feelings of things needing to be 'just' do come from genuine feelings of compassion and empathy, and not just frustration. I think the frustration and negative schemas are just clouding the waters a little bit so it can make it hard to separate, but I guess slowly learning to drop that shame and build genuine self esteem can make it easier to connect to your values. The other caveat is that part of the process of building self esteem often involves connecting with your values 😭. I might need to think about this one a bit more but it's kinda interesting isn't it. Being 22 feels so hard lmao😭

@Mint_Crane Yeah I honestly get that too. This world sucks and that's all there is too it really. It's kinda hard to think about in all honesty!

Haha it's all good, my adhd brain is bouncing around from topic to topic most of the time whenever there's a correlation hehe😄

That makes more sense, "What would I want to do/consider valuable, if I didn't feel shame/guilt?". Personally there's no reason why it can't come from both, but I also like to believe those values come from a place of empathy and compassion. I was always raised to be those things, and I guess that's what makes me who I am today. I value those things because it feels good, and because it was how I learnt to live.🙃

Building genuine self-esteem is certainly a mountain in itself, but I think you've got a good grasp on the kinds of questions to ask yourself and reflect on! I'm certainly going to keep thinking about it a lot, it's a very cool topic 🙂

I feel you there, I'm only just turning 20 and it feels so hard for no good reason😪

Really appreciate the discussion @Defender_Of_Roses ,

Building self-esteem certainly is a mountain to climb, and unfortunately at these ages, it can be made extra difficult as you have the stress of becoming an adult mixed in. And yeah the world can just seem fundamentally unfair, I get that. What I will say to that tho, is I've really been recognising how much more control you have over the kinds of contexts you put yourself in at this age.

Like for me, I've found myself kinda checking out of my high-school friend groups that instilled all the toxic judgments and that in me, and have just been reaching out to people I think are cool people. I've also been trying to put myself in situations where I'm surrounded by people who share my values. Not trying to say I've got it figured out (I deal with loneliness on a daily basis at this point unfortunately), but I've figured that if you think the world is unfair, you gotta try change your world. Yes there are unavoidables unfortunately, but things as simple as deleting instagram or not watching certain TV shows can make a world of difference imo. Also learning to build the confidence to speak up when someone is being straight up unjust/unfair/cruel is another pathway to taking control I feel. This mixed in with working on how you take in and digest injustice is key (which I'm still trying to get good at btw).

At the end of the day, our perception of the 'world' is just what we digest through our consciousness (sight, touch, feelings, thoughts etc.). So if what our consciousness is taking in is primarily 'unfair', then we're prone to feeling like life is unfair, especially if we're people who are naturally sensitive to injustice. It's like a mixture of trying to improve your reactions to the shittiness of life, but also taking steps to make life less shitty and hence expose yourself to less shittiness. You can't avoid it all together, and I believe there is a huge value in facing up to it at times, however as I said, at this age you have a surprising amount of control over who and what surrounds you.

Hope you have a good day/night cheers again for the chat, this is very helpful for me 🙏