Working out how to work with Anger
This is a thread for @J95. It kind of connects to managing anger in a healthy way, although i think it's its own topic because we're going to get all the things we've learned about anger together and turn it into a plan.
Here's what we know so far.
The hand model of the brain helps explain what's happening when anger-especially the overwhelming- can't-think-straight "hulk mode" anger strikes. That's when our lids are flipped and the wise, reasoning part of our brain shuts down.
We need to have a plan for each of these stages:
1. When our lid is down and it's not in danger of being flipped and normal life stuff is happening
2. When our lid is down but it's in danger of being flipped
3. When the lid flips and things are feeling pretty Hulky.
4. After the lid goes back down to help it stay that way.
I am wondering how to tackle this. J95 if you wanted to you could even draw a hand for each stage and we could write down
1. What each stage looks like
2. What keeps you in that stage
3. What gets you out of that stage
Or we could do it another way too, that's just an idea 🙂
@j95 oops the tag didn't work. Here's a thread.
If you want to try the hand model thingy that i just made up (i understand if it doesn't make sense cause i did just make it up) then i reckon we should start with what happens when the lid is flipped.
okay fair enough. I made a word salad 😛
When your lid is flipped.
What is it like?
Here's some things you could write out:
How do you feel, what do you say, how do you act, what do you do, and what are the consequences of that, who gets hurt, does it fix anything?
What keeps your lid flipped
For example feeling controlled, not being listened to, having posts edited, focusing on the problem, continuing to engage in conversations when it's hard to think because the thinking part of the brain has shut down.
What gets you out of that stage
What should people say that helps, how do you keep yourself safe, how do you get your lid back down? For example, take a 2 hour break from all the things, call a helpline (one that helps), go for a walk, have a glass of water, name the fact that you are experiencing hulk mode.
And what do we do to help?
Should we remind you about the plan?
Should we do listening stuff what kind of listening stuff?
Also if that's not working we need to think about how to handle that in a way that's safe for members. So if it's not working, how should we handle that?
hmm I don't mind either way just wasn't sure if you were still sending one.
Yep it definitely is, but if we get through this one, the rest will be easy. Also this is what we need to help manage this anger in a way that feels better. So yeah, that aint easy, but it's worth it. If you want I can suggest some stuff just to get us through until you have more time to think about it and share your thoughts?
Okay here is a giant thingy that i wrote.
But i wrote it, you didn't. So you need to make this yours and tell us what you need.
It's not gonna work until you've had your say!
Maybe I'll check in with you on Wednesday after you have had a bit of time to think about all this? @j95
When your lid is flipped.
What is it like?
- Feel out of control but don't care
- Angry and pretty much everything makes it worse or cops it with some anger
- Not able to think
- Feeling negative about everyone including yourself
- Don't want to feel controlled, rejected or misunderstood
- Very hard to "put it down" and take a break
- Very hard to talk to people in a way that is safe
- Feel like into a bit of a fight about stuff
- Say stuff that hurts other people
- Don't want to be ignored
- People get scared and back away
- Very hard to get help
- Feeling like hurting self or other people
- Pay out other people and maybe threaten them
- Get very angry at services and that might scare other people off who could still use them
- Lots of guidelines get broken
- RO staff edit stuff, but have trouble keeping up or explaining what's going on
- Things don't get better because posting on the forums isn't the right kind of support.
What keeps your lid flipped
- Feeling controlled
- Not feeling heard
- Being told to go elsewhere- feels like you're being abandoned
- Engaging in conversations that don't really do anything to get out of the anger particularly venting stuff
- Feeling scared of losing something or not being understood
- Stuff in the environment like loud noises, annoying housemates
- Other bad news happening
- Not eating enough food or drinking enough water
What gets you out of that stage
- Taking a break from as much stuff as possible for at least 20 minutes. But probably more like 2 or 3 hours.
- Feeling heard, people acknowledging the hurt and showing that they understand
- Calling a helpline that has worked out an agreement with you about what you need (maybe you could work something out)
- Eating food and drinking enough water
- Getting sleep
- Not having too much on your plate
- Understanding why someone has edited or moved a post.
Which brings me to a fourth bit that i think fits in here, what do you reckon?
What to do to keep the community and yourself safe
- Learn to recognise when your lid might be close to flipping
- Try and step back from posting before the lid flips- at least until we work out a type of posting that helps you feel better not worse :s
- Let us know you're worried it might happen so we can be there with you sooner.
- If your lid flips. Let us know that you're feeling crap and we can do our best to show you we've heard you and be there for you.
- Avoid posting stuff that could be upsetting or triggering to people. Like talking about hurting anyone.
- Avoid paying out other services or people in services it's bad for other people who might be able to use them, it's not good for you either.
- Avoid venting and venting and venting, it's super bad for your brain!
We have to edit stuff if
- You're paying out a service
- If you're typing stuff that is super triggering for other members like any kind of violence or aggresion, especially to others, but to yourself as well.
- Hitting posts that are off topic like twittRO or basically any group thread with vents. That's really hurtful to other people who are just trying to be safe 😞
If things keep going and it's hard for you to pull back and do stuff that helps:
- Pause for at least a couple of hours and take a break from the forums.
- Do stuff that helps - we need to find a good solid list.
- If you can't pull back, i think we should pause your account for like... 3 hours and email you to keep people safe and make sure you're not winding yourself up. What do you think about that?
Ahh that's so good @j95! I really like that it kind of brings it to life a bit, instead of being a giant list. And there's a bunch of stuff there that i didn't think of too. Nice one :).
Nowwww there's a fair bit more work to do. But i think we need one for the next two questions.
What keeps your lid flipped and what gets you out of that stage- or helps you get the lid back down.
They could possibly fit on one page though, with good, helpful stuff on one side, and not helpful stuff on the other side?
Ok well I'm slaving away today, oops I mean working, so I will try to get that done this afternoon after work or tonight @Ben-RO
Also sorry, i keep spamming you. Hope they don't work you too hard today !
Haha yeah.... Hottest day we've had in ages and it just so happens the other apprentice called in sick, funny that isn't it.
Anyway, I have to keep moving these pavers, talk latee
Ugh, pavers... in the sun. So like.. probably one of the worst jobs. Can't they make you hose something down or water some plants or something so you can cool off?
I agree with your point. We need to give you a fair go. Something to think about when you get back is what is a fair go? And where do we draw the line and say it's pause time? No rush with that. Although hopefully we can figure it out and be ready for next time a hulk mode happens so we can support you better 🙂
Okay i'll be quiet now !
Yeah that seems like a very good definition of a fair go. To make sure i understand; we have a crack at steps to manage the anger, make you feel heard, and help you get started on stuff that helps get you out of hulk mode. Here's what i am thinking
- We support you as much as we can, and follow any steps we can work on together to try and get you out of lid flipped mode.
- If you can't think or are too angry and we've been chatting for like an hour and it hasn't gotten better then it's time to take a break for at least an hour or two, because otherwise we're just going to wind you up a bit..so long as you're not Being aggresive, bagging out services and stuff we'd do our best to help.
- IF after all that you're too upset to take a break, things are getting heated and people are getting hurt, we stop it getting worse by pausing your account for a few hours. We'd send you an email and remind you that we care about you a lot and also remind you of the next steps to work on. Like going for a walk asap, getting help. Something else.
Thoughts so far?
@Ben-RO yeah I like that plan. I'm just worried about a few things, like you know how I said sometimes I feel pushed away by places, what if I feel like that if you shut my account? Obviously if will have to be pretty bad for that to happen and I get there isn't many other options I can just see myself getting really wound up over that. Oh well I guess it's my fault anyway.
No rush, i think it's okay to take a bit of time with this stuff, it's not simple or easy!
But can i ask that we stick to this bit at the end until you've had a chance to make it your own? I just want to keep you and the community safe.
My biggest question being, how long do we keep trying to help you get your lid down before we decide it's not helping?
What to do to keep the community and yourself safe
- Learn to recognise when your lid might be close to flipping
- Try and step back from posting before the lid flips- at least until we work out a type of posting that helps you feel better not worse :s
- Let us know you're worried it might happen so we can be there with you sooner.
- If your lid flips. Let us know that you're feeling crap and we can do our best to show you we've heard you and be there for you.
- Avoid posting stuff that could be upsetting or triggering to people. Like talking about hurting anyone.
- Avoid paying out other services or people in services it's bad for other people who might be able to use them, it's not good for you either.
- Avoid venting and venting and venting, it's super bad for your brain!
We have to edit stuff if
- You're paying out a service
- If you're typing stuff that is super triggering for other members like any kind of violence or aggresion, especially to others, but to yourself as well.
- Hitting posts that are off topic like twittRO or basically any group thread with vents. That's really hurtful to other people who are just trying to be safe
If things keep going and it's hard for you to pull back and do stuff that helps:
- Pause for at least a couple of hours and take a break from the forums.
- Do stuff that helps - we need to find a good solid list.
- If you can't pull back, i think we should pause your account for like... 3 hours and email you to keep people safe and make sure you're not winding yourself up. What do you think about that?
I think it would be good to make it muuuch simpler. Like, now that we've explained all the things, can we boil it down to like 5 bullet points? Cause that's my challenge for you!
