TW Feeling shit about myself

Thanks @xXLexi_Lou122Xx and @Bananatime04 

I'm working on irl supports...

No one seems to be able to help me though

Oh I forgot to mention.

Thanks to some administrative stuff up I didn't even get my antidepressants last night.

Which wouldn't have helped anything.

Thank you @xXLexi_Lou122Xx 

I saw you guys doing that 

I don't feel much like games atm though...

Thank you @Bananatime04 

No, there isn't, other than my local emergency department.

There are only two youth inpatient units in WA, the one that discharged me and the one that wouldn't even let me in.. 

Thanks everyone.

@Bananatime04 your suggestions were really good, I wish they'd worked..

I've been discharged this morning. They just watched me lying on the floor in the fetal position crying.

They'd already officially discharged me before I'd even been told, I had no chance to advocate for myself.

I asked if they could at least keep me long enough for me to contact an advocate. They said I'd already been discharged and it was too late.

I was crying on the floor curled up in a ball shivering and one of the nurses came up to me, crouched down on floor and was like "Tiny-leaf, that's not appropriate behavior. Come get your stuff."

Idk what to think of all this..

Hey @Tiny_leaf 

I think it's really good that you are self aware enough to know what you need. It sounds like more time in hospital would be helpful - @Bananatime04  made some suggestions, do you think your dad could help you to stay longer? 

Also, I'm sorry to hear you're having such distressing dreams. It can be so hard to shake how a dream has made us feel when we wake up from it. Can you think of something little you can do in the morning to let go of those yucky feelings before you start the day? 

Hope to hear from you soon  

I'm sorry I don't have any advice for you right now, what you are going through sounds awful, and I truly feel a deep empathy for your struggle. I suppose I'm just writing to say I'm read your post, I'm here, I care, and while I may still be lost in mine, I hope you find the light at the end of your tunnel. 

Not feeling great rn..

Might be discharged tomorrow, which is too soon.

As shit as hospital can be, it's at least stopping the downward spiral I was in before. I was hoping I'd be here long enough to start into a sorta upwards spiral, so that when I was discharged I'd have that momentum and actually have a good shot at improving.

But every time I try to help myself something gets in the way.

I'm almost fighting the system more than my mental illnesses. 

Every time I go to sleep all my dreams are just my dream-self struggling to stay alive. Every dream has this overwhelming sense of dread, of fighting a losing battle, and the feeling hangs over me still when I wake up.

I need rest, and I need time.

I think mostly though I just need to feel safe. I just need to be able to rest and stop struggling and know that if I do that everything won't fall to shit for when I'm able to start going again.

I've been trying really hard but I'm not getting anywhere.

@WheresMySquishy suuure you didn't.. 

And she wasn't fresh out of uni or anything, but still pretty young. And pretty sure that she knows everything...

And yup.. mine seems to be mostly due to psychosocial stuff, and therefore apparently isn't "real" depression. She also used the words "dissociation" and "hallucination" interchangeably.

"I think professionals like that are the reason why some people don't accept that their symptoms are functional."

Oh, definitely. And too many doctors actually do use functional diagnoses as a way to fob people off, sometimes before even checking to see if there's an underlying physical issue.

Like a lot of people (especially women) get misdiagnosed as having functional symptoms when there's an actual physical issue, and it can cause huge delays in treatment.

So some people won't accept that they have functional symptoms because that diagnosis is used way too often as a way to dismiss people's concerns.

Meaning that when someone actually does have FND or something similar, they sometimes don't have much way of knowing if that diagnosis was actually made carefully and properly. 

Man spontaneous recovery would be great...

Maybe part of the issue for them was that they were (understandably) freaking out over all this weird stuff that was going on for them, and getting a diagnosis helped break that cycle. 

@Tiny_leaf  Hahahaha I didn't mean it as in your brain is small but that's pretty funny!

I wonder if she was an older psychologist and not up to date with the current research.

You're so right. I know that in some cases, people can be genetically prone to getting depression, but their chance of getting it rises with stressful live events, which is the same as people without a genetic predisposition. So it is not all 'biological'. In fact, I thought most healthcare and psychology professionals are supposed to operate under a biopsychosocial model. This article says that biological, social and psychological factors can contribute to FND and the cause is not really known.

I think professionals like that are the reason why some people don't accept that their symptoms are functional. They think that the diagnosis is just a way for professionals to fob them off or imply that it's all in their head. The way that the doctor or professional delivers the diagnosis has a lot of power.
I was especially angry how she implied that the diagnosis was all that you needed to get better. If telling someone their symptoms are all mental was all it took, my sister would have got better about a year ago. I have heard about some people with FND recovering after the diagnosis spontaneously, but that seems pretty rare.

These people seem to do some advocacy for patients with FND, but I haven't contacted them myself.

Thank you so much @Bee 

Thank you @WheresMySquishy 

Idk if what I've experienced "counts" as traumatic, but it does affect me in a kinda similar way, like flashbacks and reliving it all and stuff, which would've shown up on all my psych screenings.

Ugh I don't know.. like if it's purely biological then why wouldn't diagnosis be based off a blood test or brain scan?

"People with chronic pain don't 'make up' their pain. That's extremely stigmatising language."

Thank you!! I nearly fell off my chair hearing her say that.. 

I tried to tell her that it wouldn't somehow "fix" my pain, she was kinda dismissive.

"Has she examined your brain under a microscope?" I really hope that wasn't a reference to my intelligence  😆

I'm hoping to get a second opinion...

Definitely going to try..

I might look further into that advocacy group @Maddy-RO sent me (so far I haven't needed it fortunately) 

Oops.. thanks @TOM-RO 

Sorry for making more work for you guys recently, but thanks for editing it.

Yeah, there's a bit of debate about the whole conversion disorder vs FND thing. 

A lot of the difference is how they're viewed by professionals and how they're described.

CD is often in reference to stress stomach aches/ headaches. A lot of people consider it as being "made up" by the person's mental illness, or even a subconscious desire to be cared for by others.

FND is often seen more neutrally I guess, the way it's normally described also puts more emphasis on the neurological symptoms, which are the ones that have the biggest effect on me. It just seems to fit me better, and I feel like it will put the focus on the right areas of treatment for me.

And yeah, I was. I have been diagnosed with both PDD and MDD (aka double depression). 

I've been trying to get treatment for I think years at this point..

I have a lot of co-morbid issues, and apparently I'm particularly complex, so it's not easy to get unfortunately...

Hey @Tiny_leaf ,

I am so sorry to read about this .  That sounds so invalidating for you.  I had thought that conversion disorder and FND were the same thing.  Does it impact on your treatment options? 

I can't believe you still thought of the guidelines despite the stress you were under; that shows incredible resolve and courage.  I did have to edit out one bit; I think you can guess which one !  In all seriousness I really am sorry to hear these things.  I cannot imagine how frustrating and demoralising that must be. 

Were you diagnosed with Persistent Depression Disorder?  If so, can you get treatment/therapy for that? 

Thoughts are with you

@Tiny_leaf  Wow... I can't believe that psychologist! I can understand why you're so upset.

Conversion disorder implies that the patient has experienced some kind of trauma. In my experience, this is not the case with a lot of people with FND and traumatic events are no longer considered to be a precursor to a diagnosis of conversion disorder as well. Functional symptoms can be stress-related or they can just happen without any cause or for no apparent reason. That's my understanding anyway.

How can you prove that depression has a biological cause? Has she examined your brain under a microscope?

People with chronic pain don't 'make up' their pain. That's extremely stigmatising language. Chronic pain may be a problem with how the brain interprets signals from the body according to one neurologist who does a lot of FND work. People with chronic pain can't just 'turn off' their perception of pain. This article does a good job of explaining why functional symptoms aren't imagined or made up.

I think that chronic pain can be related to depression in some people but it can honestly go any way. A depressive mood can worsen pain, for example. This is supported by a lot of research. I don't understand how she thinks that conversion disorder can make you think that you have depression.

How can she also say that there is no effective treatment for conversion disorder? Patients around the world have been successfully treated for it. If someone has trouble walking, wouldn't you refer them to a physio or try to treat that symptom? My sister's psychiatrist and her team have treated other patients with non-epileptic seizures who have had difficult or traumatic events happen to them with things like speech therapy, breathing techniques, physiotherapy and strategies to manage anxiety. I seriously don't understand the reasoning behind how she thinks there is no effective treatment.

Is there any way you can ask for a second opinion?

Okay. So I didn't come on last night because I would've probably broken a heap of guidelines.

But some stuff's happened and I'm still pretty upset by it.

So I'd finally started to feel like I had a supportive treatment team and had a chance of getting appropriate help.

But yesterday one of the psychologists came to talk to me and it resulted in a conversation that was really triggering for me.

Basically she said:

• I have conversion disorder (as opposed to FND which is a much more accurate way of describing my symptoms)
• I don't have depression. I only think I have depression because of my apparent conversion disorder.
• That according to the DSM-5, depression is only depression when it has a provable, biological cause, and it has always been this way (WTF?)
• If I understood that my physical pain is just me "making up" pain signals, I'll be able to start functioning normally
• She's right, all the experts agree with her, and I don't have the capacity to understand what she's saying
• My depression (three years old) was actually caused by my chronic pain (six months old)
• That because I'm chronically suicidal, nothing will go wrong if she makes me go on overnight leave when I've stated that I don't think I'll be safe at home
• That there's no effective treatment for conversion disorder

Even more interestingly, the reasons she gave for me not having depression include:

• Treatment and medication resistant low mood
• No periods of remission
• Chronic, fairly stable, long term low mood

In other words, it's a list of the ways persistent depressive disorder is different from major depressive disorder.

I'm so tired of fighting all these misdiagnosis. If this one stands.. I'll have even fewer treatment options than before I went to hospital.

Like there aren't many people who treat conversion disorder anyway. But it's unlikely that treatment for it will be effective because I don't actually have that disorder.

I self harmed after that. Nothing serious or life/ health threatening, but I'm now really sore. I'm scared that if I tell one of the nurses to ask about pain relief they'll assume it's attention seeking and discharge me 

Atm I'm just pretending that it's for my leg pains.

It makes me wonder why I'm always told to ask for help if I need it.

Very few people actually give me any help. Sometimes asking for help reduces my chances of getting any. 

It feels like I'm never going to get better.